New opportunities exist because brewpubs are perceived as more mainstream than they were just a few years ago, and because malls are changing. "The concept of many malls is more toward entertainment," said Michael Merriman, director of beverage operations for California Cafe Restaurants and Alcatraz Brewing Co. "Some malls are up to 65 percent entertainment."

Let them entertain you

The newest Alcatraz is located in such a mall, the Block at Orange in Orange, Calif., an entertainment complex with a 30-screen megaplex, 112 shops and plenty more in 500,000 square feet. Vans Skate Park has an 80-foot vertical ramp, a 20,0000-square-foot skating court, two in-ground cement pools, a pee-wee area for kids and a skate shop.

Alcatraz occupies 10,000-plus square feet, and plays up its prison theme here more than it did in its first brewpub in Indianapolis. "When we did the first one, we didn't want to get too themey, we didn't think that's what we needed to do," Merriman said. "After we did the first one, our landlords said, 'This is fun, but ramp it up.' Luckily, we listened, because it worked."

Additions since the Indianapolis pub opened in 1995 include a giant replica of the Golden Gate Bridge and an original mural of Alcatraz and the San Francisco Bay, all augmented by the sound of barking seals and the clang of cable car bells.

Fox River Brewing doesn't operate on as grand a scale at the Fox River Mall in Appleton, but it puts similar value on entertainment. "People don't come for just the food and beer," said co-owner Heidi Supple. "We figure food, service and atmosphere about one-third, one-third, one-third."

The brewpub has a conveyor track that runs through the pub with kegs hanging from it, and the names of each of the beers are written on the kegs. Much of the brewery is on display in the loft, and some nights a group plays jazz music from the loft area. Like Fox River's first pub on the banks of the Fox River in Oshkosh, the brewpub emphasizes a water theme and has a 37-foot fishing boat hanging from the ceiling. An open display brick pizza oven adds another entertainment element.

Fast service but not "fast food"

Alcatraz is one of five restaurant concepts that California Cafe Restaurant Corp. manages. Its first ventures outside of California were at the Mall of America near Minneapolis, where it operates a Napa Valley Grille and California Cafe. Simon DeBartolo, which manages the Mall of America, then asked California Cafe to take two spots in the Circle Centre Mall it was developing in downtown Indianapolis.

The plan was to open a California Cafe and a Napa Valley Grille, but Merriman had another idea. "I thought we were maybe missing the mark, and that's when we started looking at a brewpub," he said. "We realized this mall would have a higher volume with a lower check average."

Merriman can make a direct comparison because the company also operates a California Cafe, which uses white tablecloths and has a more upscale menu that Alcatraz, in Indianapolis. "Our table turns are at least twice as fast (at Alcatraz)," he said. "The brewpub appeals to the customer who wants fast service."

Fox River Brewing, which made distinctive cuisine part of its reputation in Oshkosh, restructured its menu a bit for its mall location. "We sell a lot more burgers and sandwich and those things," said Kip Damrow, sales and distribution manager for Fox River. "People are more concerned about getting in and out. Oshkosh is more of a destination spot, where people take their time."

Supple noted, however, that Fox River added more entrees to its menu as the first year wore on. "It provides an alternative to what's at the food court," she said. Like Alcatraz, Fox River doesn't sell much beer at lunch, but starts to as the day wears on and turns into a beer place by late in the evening. The mall has a 10-screen theater that helps attract a night crowd.

Fox River and Alcatraz count on a mix of business lunches and shopper lunches. Both sets of customers are candidates to return for evening dining and drinking, with our without the family.

Shopping on a full stomach

Many mall developers view restaurants and food courts as a necessary evil. "They come with all kinds of headaches, parking, delivers, smells . . . They'd rather have another Gap," Merriman said. Even worse than a restaurant is a restaurant that fails. The space can be particularly hard to fill. That's why proven vendors like California Cafe and proven concepts appeal to developers. Even though the success rate of brewpubs isn't as glossy as a few years ago, it's still better than the average restaurant.

"I'm not sure whose idea it was to have a brewery," said Jay Nettles, who manages Morgan's at the Silver Sands Factory Stores. Many outlet malls offer limited food service, but the food court area at Silver Sands -- operating under the Morgan's umbrella -- has a scratch bakery, a gourmet hamburger shack with 50 styles on the menu and a deli.

The brewery was originally called Harbor Docks Seafood & Brewery, but when that business went awry the mall operators bought out the ownership and added the brewery to Morgan's operation. The food court is known as "The Market," and Nettles said the goal was to make it like Dave and Busters but more family oriented.

"The vision was to add it as an amenity, to lengthen the average customer stay," Nettles said. "If people had to leave to get something to eat, the chances are they weren't coming back." The food court also serves the 1,000 employees who work at Silver Sands.

Fox River caters to mall employees, offering discounts similar to what mall stores give. "We try to get involved with the mall wherever we can," Damrow said. "When we make coffee stout we use Gloria Jean's coffee. We do style shows using clothes and jewelry from mall stores. All the stores are clamoring for us to do more. We could probably do one a day."

Location, location, location

The sheer number of customers a mall pulls in is considerably more appealing than the number of employees. The Fox River Mall calls itself Wisconsin's No. 1 tourist attraction, drawing 13 million visitors a year. "What the mall does is deliver you bodies walking past the door," Merriman said when asked about the higher rent a brewpub must fork over for a mall site. "You get what you pay for."

That's why you should be make sure you get just that.

"Since the increased rent that one pays is a tradeoff for increased traffic, you need to be mindful of your spot in the mall," Merriman said. "If you are buried on the backside, you will have decreased visibility. If you are on an upper floor ... you are limited as to signage and visibility."

Since a brewpub, more than California Cafe's "white tablecloth" concept, relies on business visibility, accessibility, parking issues and signage are all factors that have to be considered in a mall location.

It took some negotiating, but Alcatraz managed to put up a grain silo outside its first brewpub in downtown Indianapolis. "It's a wonderful piece of signage," Merriman said. Doing it once made it easier to do at all its other pubs.

Fox River Brewing also has a grain silo out front, with entrances to the brewpub from outside and inside the mall. The outside patio by the entrance is particularly popular in the summer. "It's great for people watching," Damrow said. Nonetheless, he has learned to root for inclement weather. When mall operators across the country noted slow sales until the weather turned nasty just before this past Christmas, food vendors felt the effects.

"We had our best summer ever," Damrow said, "but until the snow came (well into December) our business slowed down. Since the weather hit, beer has been flying out."

Family friendly

Fox River's food/beer sales mix is about 70/30 at both its locations, while at Alcatraz those numbers run around 65/35. Both offer separate children's menus. "To not do that would be insane," Merriman said. Fast service, visual stimulation and a casual atmosphere make the brewpub appealing for children.

At Fox River, the tables are covered with white paper and crayons are set out. When a server first appears at the table, he or she writes his or her name upside down on the paper. Because Alcatraz has no tablecloths, "Kids can throw French fries all over the place and it's not too much of a problem," Merriman said.

Both Alcatraz and Fox River discovered a logistics problem that wasn't considered when issues like the strength of the slab, venting steam-fired kettles and dealing with spent grain were being worked out.

"There isn't really room to push a stroller through the pub," Supple said. "We thought about putting up a sign for stroller parking."

A sign may not be enough. "We do have trouble some places finding enough room for stroller parking; it's tough to get that space allocated in the mall area," Merriman said.

That's something that Bert Grant and the other brewpub pioneers probably never thought about.

This story originally appeared in BrewPub magazine. It was a first place winner in the 1999 writing competition conducted by the North American Guild of Beer Writers.